Other Choirs, Singers, Musicians that you like

[Lumi]

Ah, did some digging and found out the name of the female alto singing at St Paul's whose presence in the choir left Yorkie forever traumatized. So I thought I would share this here.

She is Caroline Trevor, a member of Tallis Scholars – so that's where she'd know Andrew Carwood from. And:

Peter Phillips, director of the Tallis Scholars, wrote in a recent Spectator article about the decision to appoint his wife, contralto Caroline Trevor, to the deputies list of the choir at St Paul's Cathedral. He described her voice as 'the perfect instrument for sacred singing'.

Interesting.. But to be honest I have personally never been a huge fan of the countertenors of the choir – so I don't really care that much. I can't see how her voice would have a huge effect to the overall sound the altos produce. Here is the only recording I could find – she sings the alto part in the duet.

[Yorkie]

Ah, did some digging and found out the name of the female alto singing at St Paul's whose presence in the choir left Yorkie forever traumatized. So I thought I would share this here

I've still not recovered from the shock. Today it's a female Alto but that is only one small step from tomorrow's all girl Libera! ..

St Paul must be spinning in his grave.........

[Lumi]

I've still not recovered from the shock. Today it's a female Alto but that is only one small step from tomorrow's all girl Libera! ..

St Paul must be spinning in his grave.........

Anyway, some videos from the choir of St Thomas Church, NYC. From their German tour last summer, I believe.

Byrd, Laudibus in sanctis
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Grier, Sanctus & Benedictus (Missa Trinitatis Sanctae)
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Parry, I was Glad
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[Yorkie]

Anyway, some videos from the choir of St Thomas Church, NYC. From their German tour last summer, I believe.

Nice find. They sound so.............English............which is the highest praise I can give

Not sure about their choice of red cassocks though, it just seems wrong to me(traditionalist stick in the mud old fart that I am).

[TullyBascombe]

They're Episcopalian, so it's no wonder they sound sort of English. White cassocks ovre black or red robes is fairly standard for choirs in the Episcopal church, I don't know why St. Thomas choir doesn't wear the cassocks, maybe because it was summer? They did appear to have the frilly collars though. Doesn't New College Choir wear the red robes without the white cassocks?

[Yorkie]

They're Episcopalian, so it's no wonder they sound sort of English. White cassocks ovre black or red robes is fairly standard for choirs in the Episcopal church, I don't know why St. Thomas choir doesn't wear the cassocks, maybe because it was summer? They did appear to have the frilly collars though. Doesn't New College Choir wear the red robes without the white cassocks?

Ah Tully, it's good to know there is somebody out there who bothers to read my nonsense but I do fear that you often misunderstand my humour.

The choir of St Thomas' is well known to me, they have some of their services available to listen to online (which I highly recommend) and their Festival of lessons & carols at Christmas is not to be missed. I know they are Episcopalian, of course, and that they were modelled on traditional English choirs (and their quality has exceeded many on this side of the pond). My 'joke' of them sounding English was me poking fun (in a gentle and friendly way) at the accent of my cousins from the former colonies.

My comment about the red of their cassocks (or robes as you call them which is an equally acceptable name for the garment I think - the white thing that some choirs wear over the top of the robes is a surplice I think?) was perhaps based on a misconception on my part. For some time I have had stuck in my mind that red robes (for Anglican choirs) were the reserve of choirs that had a royal connection (for example Kings College was formed by Henry VI iirc or Westminster Abbey which is a Royal Peculiar). So only choirs with a royal connection could wear red and all the others had to wear different colours (such as the black ones of St Paul's). So my comment was jokingly aimed at rebelious traitors to the crown having the temerity to wear royal red - but I think I may have made the whole thing up!!!

Oh well, one thing I do know is that when I next make it back to New York (and I will) you can be certain that I will be stopping by at St Thomas'.

[TullyBascombe]

Historically those traitors to the crown had a number of well connected supporters in the United Kingdom. The failure to suppress the American Revolution weakened the position of those who still clung to the idea of royal supremacy and so was yet another step in the evolution of modern British democracy.

[paul]

My comment about the red of their cassocks (or robes as you call them which is an equally acceptable name for the garment I
think - the white thing that some choirs wear over the top of the robes is a surplice I think?)

Yep, spot on Yorkie.

Quick look at the wiki relieved this.

A surplice (Late Latin superpelliceum, from super, "over" and pellis, "fur") is a liturgical vestment of the Western Christian Church. The surplice is in the form of a tunic of white linen or cotton fabric, reaching to the knees or to the ankles, with wide or moderately wide sleeves.

It was originally a long garment with open sleeves reaching nearly to the ground, as it remains in the Anglican tradition, but in the Roman Catholic tradition, the surplice often has shorter, closed sleeves and square shoulders. Anglicans typically refer to a Roman-style surplice with the Medieval Latin term cotta [meaning 'cut-off' in Italian], as it is derived from the cut-off alb. English-speaking Roman Catholics, however, typically do not make the distinction between the two styles, and refer to both by the term "surplice".

[TullyBascombe]

Actually I was referring to a white upper garment reaching about to waist length, shorter than the garment worn by priests. Is that still called a surplice?

[Yorkie]

Actually I was referring to a white upper garment reaching about to waist length, shorter than the garment worn by priests. Is that still called a surplice?

In short (or long ) yes, it is called a surplice in either case (well at least in the RC church. Anglican's sometimes call the shorter garment a cotta, but I think if you refer to the white garment worn over cassocks (or robes as you prefer) a surplice, what ever its length, people will know what you mean).

In the Anglican church the surplice is the longer length garment (which it was originally in the RC church) but it is the RC church that has changed to the shorter garment over time.

choir surplice

[TullyBascombe]

Actually I was referring to a white upper garment reaching about to waist length, shorter than the garment worn by priests. Is that still called a surplice?

In short (or long ) yes, it is called a surplice in either case (well at least in the RC church. Anglican's sometimes call the shorter garment a cotta, but I think if you refer to the white garment worn over cassocks (or robes as you prefer) a surplice, what ever its length, people will know what you mean).

In the Anglican church the surplice is the longer length garment (which it was originally in the RC church) but it is the RC church that has changed to the shorter garment over time.

choir surplice

Amongst the entire group pictured on that page the most common style I've seen worn by Episcopalian youth choiristers is the "Roman Surplice" with either the round or square necks. One good reason for that is virtually the entire United States gets considerably hotter than Europe in the summer. The boys of Libera go to the length of putting their hoodies on backwards to keep their throats warm, but I'm pretty sure that there must be a point at which increasing body heat would be counter productive.

[john45]

The boys of Libera go to the length of putting their hoodies on backwards to keep their throats warm

I thought they did that to catch spilt food and drink.

[Yorkie]

My comment about the red of their cassocks (or robes as you call them which is an equally acceptable name for the garment I think - the white thing that some choirs wear over the top of the robes is a surplice I think?) was perhaps based on a misconception on my part. For some time I have had stuck in my mind that red robes (for Anglican choirs) were the reserve of choirs that had a royal connection (for example Kings College was formed by Henry VI iirc or Westminster Abbey which is a Royal Peculiar). So only choirs with a royal connection could wear red and all the others had to wear different colours (such as the black ones of St Paul's). So my comment was jokingly aimed at rebellious traitors to the crown having the temerity to wear red - but I think I may have made the whole thing up!!!

It seems I might not have made up the red cassocks meaning a royal connection after all. If Wiki can be trusted (big if???) then in the Anglican church red cassocks (actually scarlet per the article) are "properly worn only by Chaplains to the Queen and by members of Royal foundations such as Westminster Abbey and some Cambridge college chapels."

Full article HERE

Bloody Americans, no respect for tradition

[TullyBascombe]

Same Wikipedia article:

Readers and altar servers usually wear black cassocks, but those worn by choirs are usually coloured.

What color would one choose for an Anglican choir if not red? Chartreuse? Fuscia? Magenta? There are only so many colors that would be appropriate. I suppose you could use blue, but surely not green or yellow.

Looking around the internet Ive discovered the following English choirs other than the royal choirs and the Cambridge choirs wear red cassocks at least for some services: York Ministry, Lichfield Cathedral, Coventry Cathedral and Worchester Cathedral, and who knows about all the small church choirs that never get posted on YouTube. It's ..... It's....... It's Republicanism I tell you. Do you want your children to sing the Marseilles? Do you want Boney fo your king? Yes! Yes! We do! ( Loud splash as Russell Crowe is thrown overboard. )

[maartendas]

What color would one choose for an Anglican choir if not red? Chartreuse? Fuscia? Magenta? There are only so many colors that would be appropriate. I suppose you could use blue, but surely not green or yellow.

I actually can picture green or yellow looking quite nice
I always love the Roden Boys Choir color, it's a turqoise-like green - they're not an Anglican choir officially, but modelled on the Anglican choral tradition.
http://www.roderjongenskoor.nl/