Christmas Concert

[seraphita]

Dear Santa,

Even though it's still summer, an early request for Libera: let there be an Christmas Concert this year in the beautiful St George's Cathedral, London.

[fan_de_LoK]

Although a Christmas concert is quite certain, I do hope it will NOT be performed at St George RC cathedral

That cathedral is convenient to attend, but it is very narrow and the 'stage' is not high enough.
The seats that allow a clear open view can be counted on the two hands's fingers, and I am generous saying that.

The Westminster Cathedral is much more appreciable to host a libera concert in London.
Though, it is a very prestigious venue and surely not easy to book. Perhaps the opportunity for a concert there as we had in 2017 and 2018 will not present again before years...

But any other church would be preferable to St George. Hopefully in a new place, even away from London. Last year Brighton was a great place for the concert and for a bit of tourism

[john45]

A lot will depend on available funds and available venue. Westminster is very expensive to hire. For an audience to see more than a pillar or the back of someone's head at St. George's, video with multiple screens is needed which is also expensive. Brighton is not expensive and has good sightlines but there might be minor additional transport costs. As far as I can remember St. John's Norwood also has a pillar problem. I wonder if St. James, Spanish Place might be a consideration or if it is feasible to rent St. Luke's on Old Street?

[filiarheni]

From my three Christmas concerts so far - St. George's, Westminster Cathedral and Brighton - I'm definitely pro St. George's and contra Westminster Cathedral, if it had to be a choice among these three. I leave Brighton away, as it was really nice and yes, an opportunity to visit another place, which is always very welcome, but the concerts outside of London never offer a possibility for an M&G, and the UK attenders should also get a regular chance for that.

Why St. George's? The concert was absolutely enjoyable not only due to the music, but the atmosphere was so festive, warm, bright, familiar, in short: just right for a Christmas concert and perfectly placing me into the Christmas spirit.
And .... St. George's in fact had a M&G, so perhaps they'd be ready to repeat that there.

Why not Westminster Cathedral? Because of the wooden walls from both sides behind which Libera stood, drawing a thick line of separation between Libera and the audience. I found that extremely irritating! Also, the Cathedral has a gloomy touch due to the darkness above and, as beautifully coloured as it doubtlessly is, all in all it radiates something cold.

So I find that in both cases it's the atmosphere which makes me vote for or against. To me, the atmospherical aspect is very important in a Libera concert.

But I guess that London disposes of more than two cathedrals, so maybe other possibilities open up which satisfy everyone.

[TullyBascombe]

I'm just hoping there will be a Christmas concert and that I can snatch up a ticket from this side of the pond. Hopefully it won't be right at Christmas but maybe a week or two before?

[andmar]

From my three Christmas concerts so far - St. George's, Westminster Cathedral and Brighton - I'm definitely pro St. George's and contra Westminster Cathedral, if it had to be a choice among these three. I leave Brighton away, as it was really nice and yes, an opportunity to visit another place, which is always very welcome, but the concerts outside of London never offer a possibility for an M&G, and the UK attenders should also get a regular chance for that.

Why St. George's? The concert was absolutely enjoyable not only due to the music, but the atmosphere was so festive, warm, bright, familiar, in short: just right for a Christmas concert and perfectly placing me into the Christmas spirit.
And .... St. George's in fact had a M&G, so perhaps they'd be ready to repeat that there.

Why not Westminster Cathedral? Because of the wooden walls from both sides behind which Libera stood, drawing a thick line of separation between Libera and the audience. I found that extremely irritating! Also, the Cathedral has a gloomy touch due to the darkness above and, as beautifully coloured as it doubtlessly is, all in all it radiates something cold.

So I find that in both cases it's the atmosphere which makes me vote for or against. To me, the atmospherical aspect is very important in a Libera concert.

But I guess that London disposes of more than two cathedrals, so maybe other possibilities open up which satisfy everyone.

I must agree here fully with filiarheni (which doesn't happen too often, does it? ). I didn't attended any concert at St.George's though. But the wooden walls in the Westminster Cathedral did disturb and irritate me a lot too and ... there's no suitable place for a M&G there.

Yes, I'd love to attend a M&G after a concert again. For my first M&G I had to travel to the US, as they usually don't do M&Gs in the UK for various reasons (no suitable place like in the Westminster Cathedral or a long way back home after a concert outside of London). The M&Gs in the US were so much fun for all: the boys and the fans. So, yes, St.Georges this year, please (or another place, provided a M&G is planned ).

[fan_de_LoK]

I'm surprise and a bit shocked to read here that a meet and greet possibility is used as primary criteria for the choice of a concert place.
Should a M&G to occur, it is of course pleasant to attend it, but we are supposed to attend a concert to enjoy the concert itself, not to expect a M&G.

I am not especially defending Westminster Cathedral, as having it for a third time in a row looks quite unlikely.
But I don't fully understand the argument about the side walls there (made of marble, not wood).
Ok they obstruct a bit the view (see here) and it would be better without them, but this is nothing serious when compared to St George.

St George is very narrow. it proposes only 6 to 8 seats with an open view. Chances to obtain one of these at the tickets sale are quite nil.
So St George guaranties for almost everyone to have a bunch of heads right before the nose, causing obstructions much more damaging than the small walls of Westminster. And not speaking about the tens of people whose view of the concert will be summarized to a stones pillar.

Any church wider than St George would be a significant improvement, wherever it would be.
As example, to appreciate the concert, better to go back to Brighton than to go back to St George.


The only advantages St George may offer is for Libera. The church is likely cheap to book and transportation for the kids is short.
But as John pointed it, the view for the public is so bad there that libera is used to rent a costly service of multiple display screens, in order to propose something to watch for the public. So in term of booking costs, it may not be that interesting.

A church in London would be appreciated because attending it will be fast and simple for everyone, but hopefully not St George.

Should St George to be the concert place for the 7th time, I will sigh and try my best for the ticket, but I know a round big head right before me is likely what I will get, as almost everyone.

[john45]

I think they are thinking about the low wall seen here:

Screen Shot 2019-08-26 at 6.24.45 PM.png (4.11 MiB) Viewed 2145 times

Screen Shot 2019-08-26 at 6.24.45 PM.png (4.11 MiB) Viewed 2145 times

.
No big deal really, might hide some feet.
Heres a nice tour of the cathedral
https://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/tours/w ... cathedral/

[fan_de_LoK]

No big deal really, might hide some feet.
Heres a nice tour of the cathedral
https://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/tours/w ... -cathedral

Thanks John, beautiful photos

That large and prestigious cathedral offers Libera to displays magnificently in a wide stage.
No wonder photos from there were chosen as posters

And yes, the small walls just hide some feet:

(click for large version)

Meanwhile, apart for the very few happy people on the 1st row, St George would hide a large percentage of the whole choir to the public.
And after the concert people to ask each others about who sung this or that, being unable to see some choristers

[andmar]

I'm surprise and a bit shocked to read here that a meet and greet possibility is used as primary criteria for the choice of a concert place.
Should a M&G to occur, it is of course pleasant to attend it, but we are supposed to attend a concert to enjoy the concert itself, not to expect a M&G.

I'm sorry for causing some confusion here. Of course it's the concert itself which is the most important thing. I held it for so obvious, that I didn't realize at the moment of writing my previous post that not mentioning it could be so confusing.

Well, the wall in Westminster Cathedral hides the feet and a bit more. But for me more disturbing than just a bit obscured view was the feeling, like there was a thick bareer which separates the audience from the choir.

[filiarheni]

Hi Patrick and John, I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm surprise and a bit shocked to read here that a meet and greet possibility is used as primary criteria for the choice of a concert place.
Should a M&G to occur, it is of course pleasant to attend it, but we are supposed to attend a concert to enjoy the concert itself, not to expect a M&G.

This is basically right. It's in no way the main aspect and it wasn't intended to look like that. But yes, it counts, too (and I'm not even talking mainly about myself now). Imagine the Libera fans who never get a chance to attend an M&G, never can talk to the boys, never can thank them in person, never can ask them a question, never can laugh with them, never see the fun around, but only can look at the photos and hear the interesting, cute and hilarious stories which happen at a M&G, and never experience it first-hand. I think these are very valid arguments to install M&Gs also in the UK, e. g. once a year, as there is a Libera supporting audience here as well!
A mini-travel to the UK can already be a painful financial effort for the one, while another can do long distances without feeling it as a too terrible financial burden. Anyway, we all come in order to see our favourite choir; so why not treat all fans equally in this regard?

If it is for the enjoyment of the concert - and of course it is - I wouldn't put the prestige of a venue into first place either, when it comes to selecting a venue. Atmosphere, form, space (in alphabetical order ), these are the criteria that for me weigh heavier.

Now to my main issue:

No big deal really, might hide some feet.

The wall - you are right, it was marble, not wood - covered by far more than just their feet. In this case, I would probably not even have taken notice, because usually my eyes do not go down to their feet and if so, I do that willingly to have a look if there's again someone without shoes.
In fact, the wall covered the small boys by almost half their height! This can well be seen on Libera's photos. Those taken more from a bird's perspective don't show how it was from the audience's position. The first one mirrors quite well the view that I had.

1 Libera official - Westminster Cathedral 2017.PNG (252.69 KiB) Viewed 2080 times

1 Libera official - Westminster Cathedral 2017.PNG (252.69 KiB) Viewed 2080 times

2 Libera official - Westminster Cathedral 2017.PNG (188.69 KiB) Viewed 2080 times

2 Libera official - Westminster Cathedral 2017.PNG (188.69 KiB) Viewed 2080 times

3 Libera official - Westminster Cathedral 2017.PNG (275.17 KiB) Viewed 2080 times

3 Libera official - Westminster Cathedral 2017.PNG (275.17 KiB) Viewed 2080 times

More photos here: https://libera.org.uk/gallery/westminst ... dral-2017/

It was, as andmar well expressed it, like a barrier, which I experienced very consciously that evening and it considerably reduced my enjoyment of the concert. Apart from the fact that it naturally was not too fortunate, when the boys were kneeling. It can take away from the effect of a choreography, too.

Furthermore, the wall extends quite far from both sides into the middle so that there remained a comparatively small width for a free view on the boys "in full". For those who sit very near to the aisle, this may not have been as noticeable, which might explain our difference in perception.

St George is very narrow. it proposes only 6 to 8 seats with an open view.

Well, it is not much in comparison with others, but grant St. George's at least what it does have: 10 - 14 seats in the middle nave. (Brighton: 20, Arundel: 15)

However, I do see your point, Patrick and John, regarding St. George's. I don't have much experience and was extremely joyful and in awe about this my first Christmas concert, very satisfied with my place in the third row and so I might be biased for my enthusiasm that day. Of course, the venue should offer as many good-view seats as possible! If for you St. George's provides too much restricted view due to the pillars and its narrowness, Westminster Cathedral for me provides too much restricted view due to the wall.

But I think that there must be quite a couple of other possible venues for a Libera concert in London, where our wishes can be brought in accordance. I do not defend a concert in St. George's at all costs! So perhaps we can agree this way and hope for Libera to find a venue which is good for them and also pleases all the audience.

[fan_de_LoK]

St George is very narrow. it proposes only 6 to 8 seats with an open view.

Well, it is not much in comparison with others, but grant St. George's at least what it does have: 10 - 14 seats in the middle nave. (Brighton: 20, Arundel: 15)

(click to enlarge images).

You demonstrates here you don't know St George and you build your position mostly on fantasy.

The right side of the pews can seat 3 people. No more.
I can certify that because it occurred once we had to sit there by 4, before seats were numbered, due to a jerk that imposed himself. It was a nightmare. Never again.
Left side can sit 6, 7 if everyone squishes.



Then you have to take in account the various obstructions by musicians and piano, which varies a bit every year, but there always something before the front row left. Not speaking about the large stone lectern on the right.
When you try the seats there before the concert, as we often do, you realize that only the front 3 seats on each side offer a totally open view, as I said.
4 on the left if they manage to push the musicians a bit more.



Instead of mocking and laughing about imaginary seats, you should pray that we will not be sent to that church again

John and I already pointed it twice but you obviously chose to ignore the large part of the public in the back and sided at St George. The public comes there to attend a libera concert, and is served instead 2 hours of stones pillars and screens.



I don't understand how can someone that was lucky to attended both St George and Westminster Cathedral to claim that St George is more suited for a libera concert.

Better Westminster Cathedral, Arundel Cathedral, Brighton church, than St George.
Better any larger church than St George, wherever it is, as long the renting costs remain affordable.

[andmar]

Hi Patrick and John, I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm surprise and a bit shocked to read here that a meet and greet possibility is used as primary criteria for the choice of a concert place.
Should a M&G to occur, it is of course pleasant to attend it, but we are supposed to attend a concert to enjoy the concert itself, not to expect a M&G.

This is basically right. It's in no way the main aspect and it wasn't intended to look like that. But yes, it counts, too (and I'm not even talking mainly about myself now). Imagine the Libera fans who never get a chance to attend an M&G, never can talk to the boys, never can thank them in person, never can ask them a question, never can laugh with them, never see the fun around, but only can look at the photos and hear the interesting, cute and hilarious stories which happen at a M&G, and never experience it first-hand. I think these are very valid arguments to install M&Gs also in the UK, e. g. once a year, as there is a Libera supporting audience here as well!
A mini-travel to the UK can already be a painful financial effort for the one, while another can do long distances without feeling it as a too terrible financial burden. Anyway, we all come in order to see our favourite choir; so why not treat all fans equally in this regard?

Thank you filiarheni for putting so well into words what I wasn't able to do myself. Yes, of course, it's the concert which is the main and the most important event. But a M&G afterwards is a very nice experience, which I was lucky to enjoy for the very first time during my recent trip to the US. And yes, the US trip was a huge financial burden for me. I don't know when and if at all I will be able to repeat an adventure like that. The M&Gs there were very nice, enjoyable and much fun, but now I don't know when and if at all I will be able to attend one again .

Instead of mocking and laughing about imaginary seats, you should pray that we will not be sent to that church again

Oh, I can't say too much about the St.George's itself as I have never attended any concert there, but I'm sure there must have been a misunderstanding between filiarheni and fan_de_LoK. I know filiarheni well and I really can't imagine her mocking or laughing nastily or ignoring someone.

But I think that there must be quite a couple of other possible venues for a Libera concert in London, where our wishes can be brought in accordance. I do not defend a concert in St. George's at all costs! So perhaps we can agree this way and hope for Libera to find a venue which is good for them and also pleases all the audience.

And she actually doesn't defend a concert in St.George's at all cost...

[filiarheni]

Patrick, I apologise for my joke. Andmar is right: I was far from the least thought of mocking, in fact I was simply hoping to ease this discussion a little as I know your good sense of humour, not taking in mind how serious this is for you. Definitely be assured that I did not intend to hurt anyone nor laugh about you - only with you.

My "10 - 14 seats" were based on re-looking at the seating plan for the 2016 concert. Up to now, I have never heard/read of such heavy critics about St. George's and my own experience was fine, so the complaints now astounded me. Regarding all other points, I have addressed everything in my above post.

I hope and think we can end this now peacefully, according to Libera's beautiful music. After all, we all have our personal preferences, be it songs, soloists, and also venues, and the importance someone attaches to this or that aspect of them can individually vary. It is not worth a quarrel among us fans, I'm sure, as at last it's Libera who takes the decision.

[Padmachou]

I sincerily agree with everyone, is that possible ?

I don't know if my memory of St Georges is very distorted because it was my first ever Libera concert... it is bound to be ! But it was the most warming welcome for me, I felt like everybody was at home. Though, I do not have many "visual" memories (except NOT being able to see soloists), and I remember vividly the screens, so you must be right about the view.

As for Westminster I must say it was wonderful, but a bit cold, like we were not at home and yes, the barrier was a psychological barrier as much as physical. Also, I must say with the mini-boys right behind the barriers, I could not see most of the boys behind. Yet wonderful concerts !

The best views I got were Ely and Arundel (thanks to filiarheni, otherwise I would have seen a pillar !), then Brighton but they are a bit far. I guess we should all agree that if Libera could find a church inside London, with a good view and maybe a place to set a Meet&Great (which I must say, I never ever got the opportunity to experience, since the last St Georges' concert got displaced to Westminster), we would all be the merrier !

Then again, just a Christmas Concert at all would be a special treat Right ?